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Author Topic: P2 Hydro Classes adjustment, Independant poll.
Damo
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Post Re: P2 Hydro Classes adjustment, Independant poll.
on: February 10, 2014, 11:37
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Let it be known that I have no problem with the current format, more water time can only be a cood thing, BUT , if we add 2 more stock classes we will need to make some room somewhere , thats what this conversation is based around, maybe the most simple thing to do is have a poll to see wether the membership thinks it is a good idea to have 2 more stock classes?, IMHO we already have a very sucessfull stock class that has proven to be a great training ground for beginners (T1), and we run plenty of offshores throughout the year where guys run stock monos very successfully.
If you have a T1 then you can run in T1 , p2 and open oval , then then T2 or P3 with a motor swap , all this without introducing anymore classes.
I dont like the idea of dropping or restricting classes but I dont see any other realistic option if we are to add classes to an already very busy schedule.
Cheers
Damo
Tui
Jedi
Posts: 124
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Post Re: P2 Hydro Classes adjustment, Independant poll.
on: February 10, 2014, 20:10
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Hi All,
Some really good debate above, although it would be good to see a bit more from those who are currently geared up with the range of P2 hydros ie T1,T2,SPH and Outrigger to see what they might think about simplifying things back,( dis establishing various classes) effectively making some of their gear obsolete ?
Again, I remind you that this is about the Nats..any discussion regarding "begginers" IMO is mis placed regarding this as they should not really be at a Nats until they have at least a year of club racing under their belt, that includes any stock class stuff...Nats caters for Rookies, but there is a difference between that and a green horn begginer... the stock classes are not aimed at begginers for the Nats, although do provide a great training ground at club and regional event level. Stock classes at the Nats are to provide value for money racing, ie go with 1 motor and run upto 5 events, also creates racing at reduced speeds where some feel a bit more comfortable and in control of what they are doing, and not so intimidated by others whistling past at 60k + faster !
Perhaps another thing to think about is dropping the marathon events, that would save at least half a day, and in all fairness most can "fill their boots" with enduro type racing at as many of the Offshore rounds as they need to satisfy that craving. Ie make the Nats all sprint racing only.
Again I point out that at the Nats you go to "compete", and in real terms you need to go armed with the right boat for any particular class,yes you can race with an "out of class" boat ( in pure terms) but as Bob notes you only do so realistically hoping to pick up the dregs at others demise, in a way that kind of distorts the outcomes per class that should actually be seen...my old favourite saying around this is seagull racing !

Keep it coming !!

Cheers, TUI.
Damo
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Post Re: P2 Hydro Classes adjustment, Independant poll.
on: February 10, 2014, 21:39
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Dropping the marathon is a good idea , that would effectively make room for two more stock classes and then some.
mattgay
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Post Re: P2 Hydro Classes adjustment, Independant poll.
on: February 10, 2014, 22:04
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IMO Do away with marathon. If the rules were to be changed so the T2 was an any P2 engine class i would say keep T2 and make SPH picklefolk only. If the rules stay the as they are and you can run a shovel with a modded motor in SPH I would say drop T2. And yes this does affect me having both a T2 and SPH.
Matt
Bigfishbob
Jedi
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Post Re: P2 Hydro Classes adjustment, Independant poll.
on: February 10, 2014, 22:39
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I don't have a pickle fork PSH or an outrigger, I do have a shovel nose hydro that I could run my Stock or Modified engine in under the current rules I'm covered for all the current classes.

However, I'm struggling to see how you'd argue that either PSH or outrigger become obsolete irrespective of whether the rules change or not? Outrigger still runs in P2 Hydro, and PSH still runs in the PSH class in both situations?

Can you elaborate more about what becomes obsolete?

An never forget, to finish first, first you must finish, it's the nature of racing. Seagull or otherwise a win, is a win, is a win.

Marathon's a different style of racing and requires you to be on your toes for the full 20 minutes, one mistake and you go from hero to zero in less than a second. If push came to shove I guess you could shelve it, but you could also run all nitro classes together and all petrol classes together and allocate class points in the same way as we do for Offshore. Alternately make it the Monday morning event?
Tui
Jedi
Posts: 124
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Post Re: P2 Hydro Classes adjustment, Independant poll.
on: February 11, 2014, 18:47
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What I was getting at was IF for instance T2 was knocked on the head because those boats currently fit SPH, then there are many with specific T2 and SPH boats, so have to chose one or the other. IF one simplified classes further ie stick with P2 Hydro, and because of what it is ( knocking all other off except for T1) then there will be some with 3 boats ( T2,SPH,Outrigger) where only 1 can be used ...thats what I was getting at.
As far as "Seagull" racing is concerned, then that only amounts to a hollow victory IMO, ie you didnt win, the others lost ! ! Maybe not to others, but I personally would rather "compete" at the sharp end and win it fair and square...
We have already cut back the marathons this time to Open Petrol and Open Nitro but with the number of entries we are still in for multiple heats ( of petrol at least )
Given the history of what has happened with the 1/2 last day then clearly that never worked, it was decided that the last day had to be followed by Prize giving and that was the last act of the regatta, getting people back the morning after that has been a disaster !
Maybe I am missing it, but IF we made the following alterations, would it not sort the issues?
1> T1 boats cannot cross enter into T2 (not without some sort of validated motor change, needs TBC)
2> T2 boats can run any brand engine upto 27cc
3> SPH to be Picklefork hulls only( specs about hull TBC)
4> P2 Hydro is not actually run as an event at the Nats as is a mini Open Oval for all types of P2 Hydros. The second opportunity with your best boat is in Petrol Open Oval.
5> No marathon at the Nats, sprint racing only.
What ever the case, some how we need to get ourselves better positioned with all this for the future, again, this is ONLY about the Nats, what ever happens outside this at Club level and Regional events remains unaffected, meaning you can cross enter your boats as much as you like else where to get the time on water / value for money required...

Cheers, Tui.
Damo
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Post Re: P2 Hydro Classes adjustment, Independant poll.
on: February 11, 2014, 20:11
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You make alot of sense there steve, can p2 its a double up, riggers can be run in open oval
Tui
Jedi
Posts: 124
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Post Re: P2 Hydro Classes adjustment, Independant poll.
on: February 11, 2014, 20:51
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In addition to above, Petrol Outrigger class as per current rules remains, and will run at Nats as an event if 4 boats enter, or otherwise as Damo notes they can run in Petrol Open Oval...

Chur.
Bigfishbob
Jedi
Posts: 287
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Post Re: P2 Hydro Classes adjustment, Independant poll.
on: February 11, 2014, 21:49
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Okay but you need to check your data
1. How many guys actively racing currently have separate T1 and T2 boats? I reckon about 3 maybe 5
2. How many guys are racing T1 boats in T2 class? I reckon it's me and 2 others it may only be me and Matt Bindon.

There's nothing to be gained by stopping T1 boats running in T2. If you keep T2 open to all P2 engines, then I'd be happy to separate P2 shovel nose from P2 Picklefork.

Keeping P2 also gives the opportunity for outriggers to rule supreme, once it becomes dominated by full fields of outriggers, then you have your outrigger class, no rule change required.

The other perspective for the Nationals, whilst it's primarily about competing for national titles, it's also the only time each year that up to 30 racers meet in one place. The amount of fellowship and learning through racing experience that comes from participating at these events is a great thing for the sport and a positive experience gives people lots of reasons to want to come back. Don't underestimate the power of a rookie's first placing or win at a national event as a lever to keeping them engaged and coming back for more. Whilst you might be quick to write it off as a hollow victory, you need to recognise it for what it really is, a victory for the rookie AND the sport if it keeps them engaged and coming back for more.

It's these softer outcomes which is the real power of the nationals and part of what will grow the association.
mattbindon
Jedi
Posts: 182
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Post Re: P2 Hydro Classes adjustment, Independant poll.
on: February 17, 2014, 21:33
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1. Yes
2. Yes
3. No
4. No
5. Yes
6. No
7. Yes
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