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Author Topic: Fail safe information
Brendon-
Kirk
Newbie
Posts: 10
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Post Fail safe information
on: September 23, 2016, 18:35
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A few questions for the committee regarding the new engine kill fail safe rules.

What testing has been done with engine kill switch?.

What brand and make of switch are you using for marine use?

Has someone but a guide line and or wiring diagram together for between RC Box and engine (handy for new bees that have no idea.?

I understand how they work as I supply and sell Bee killers for the last three years to the RC Car Large scale guys and is a compulsory safety item both here and in AUS. I have also seen first hand when engine kill switches don't work on a number of times

Cheers

Bigfishbob
Jedi
Posts: 287
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Post Re: Fail safe imformation
on: September 23, 2016, 18:40
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Hi Brendon, have a chat with the guys in the Wellington and Masterton Clubs. They're leading the field in their R&D efforts and have found some very successful solutions. The committee is being careful not to prescribe specific models or types. There are a large number of options. Most are sealing them in their radio boxes and sealing the two wires that exit the radio box to go to the engine.

Some have found a simple relay that is powered by the third channel outlet from the receiver. The relay is held closed when there is enough power, and opens when power is lost.

The important thing is that the ignition is killed when the receiver loses power or signal. Note that this requirement is for offshore racing only at this stage.
Guest
Jedi
Posts: 149
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Post Re: Fail safe imformation
on: September 24, 2016, 08:40
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Perhaps could those that have working systems, publish on the forum and propshaft what does work, where to get the items/parts, wiring diagrams etc so that members are not having to reinvent the wheel for themselves. This is something the committee should assist with as they have set the rule, so as to not make it difficult and hard to achieve for individual members. I.e. please just share the information.
mattgay
Advanced
Posts: 81
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Post Re: Fail safe imformation
on: September 24, 2016, 09:43
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Interesting.
Why the new rule?
Why only Offshore boats?
Is a P3 hydro doing 130kph not as dangerous as an offshore boat?
What about a nitro boat what systems are in place for a total voltage loss?
Seems a little hash to me when a simple return spring on the throttle would do the same job in a case of total voltage loss.
Looking foward to same answers.
Matt G
Bigfishbob
Jedi
Posts: 287
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Post Re: Fail safe imformation
on: September 25, 2016, 16:00
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Offshore boats for a start, because they are generally all the larger Gas powered, craft, no one is racing Nitro in offshore anymore(we didn't make that a rule, the nitro boats just disappeared). The risk of an out of control Gas powered boat is exacerbated by the consequences of it hitting something or someone in more open waters. There have been far too many instances of out of control boats this year for this issue to continued to be ignored.

Gas powered oval boats will be next, but generally run in more protected waters. The Masterton Club have imposed this rule for ALL boats running on their lake, given that the public are walking around the waters edge.

The throttle spring was considered an option when used in conjunction with a coreless servo, that has low enough mechanical resistance, for the spring to do it's job. We found that not all coreless servos had low enough mechanical Resistance to allow the spring to return the throttle to zero. It's also not effective when the butterfly falls off or the carb jams.

All clubs now have identified options for Ignition kill systems. Pete your one of your own club members has an option for sale and was being used by himself and Bruce at yesterday's Rotorua offshore. The committee is not going to enter into prescribing what to use, given that everybody will have their own preference from the options available. These things have been mandatory for sometime in the RC car racing scene, there's no shortage of information and opinions on this subject.
Sorry
Jedi
Posts: 212
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Post Re: Fail safe imformation
on: September 25, 2016, 19:33
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I am only speaking on behalf of other members here so please correct me if I am wrong. Steve Trott and Matt Lee are both still running nitro motors in Off Shore. Although they haven't been to the last two Off Shore events they still have boats with nitro motors in them that they race in Off Shore events. I think you are we bit assumptous here in saying nitro do not exist anymore. Cheers Sorry

Bigfishbob
Jedi
Posts: 287
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Post Re: Fail safe information
on: September 25, 2016, 20:22
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You're talking about 1 out of the 33 boats that have competed in the offshore series to date, Matt hasn't competed in the offshore series yet. I'll be pleasantly surprised ( I really like Nitro and am sad to see it die away) if I see a new Nitro boat enter the series anytime soon.
Sorry
Jedi
Posts: 212
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Post Re: Fail safe information
on: September 25, 2016, 21:07
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Once again you are being assumptous. In actual fact we have in our club two Off Shore boats that have nitro engines powering them, what I want to know is what happens when they turn up to an event, are they going to be turned away. I have no problem with the rule regards petrol, but lets be fair. Nitro at this stage also has its place and can also be very competitive. If I was to put a 15cc nitro engine in an OfF Shore boat I would be very very competitive. Cheers Sorry

Bigfishbob
Jedi
Posts: 287
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Post Re: Fail safe information
on: September 25, 2016, 22:11
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There is nothing in the new rules that say you can't run nitro. The new rules target petrol boats because they pose a bigger risk. There are zero voltage cu-off mechanisms available for Nitro, one of your club members sells them. A responsible boaty should seriously consider installing one irrespective of whether they are required or not.

I you think that fail safing nitros should be included in the rules then please send your submission to the committee.
Guest
Jedi
Posts: 149
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Post Re: Fail safe information
on: September 26, 2016, 07:45
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I think Matt's point on a throttle return spring has been brushed aside very quickly. A standard servo can return the throttle to closed in a power loss situation with an extra spring added into the linkage system. This I raised earlier on but it seems that there is only one view of dealing with this issue. A return spring would also work with a nitro engine, possibly quicker and more effectively than a solenoid shutoff.
It is also not about the committee prescribing what to use, but rather helping to facilitate the rule you have made. At this point a rule has been made and put into place with no testing of options or information given, just left to everyone to sort it for themselves. If this is applied to oval racing as well, it could possibly have further negative impact on membership (not that there is much oval racing happening). Is this something that the committee has considered and investigated? It bothers me all these 'rules' will do little more than to kill off interest in this hobby!
On the up side, it doesn't really impact me so much personally as FE boats already have failsafe cutouts! Could be the future aye! Lol.
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