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Author Topic: Offshore rules 2016
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Jedi
Posts: 149
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Post Re: Offshore rules 2016
on: January 14, 2016, 15:46
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From The constitution

. Duties and Powers of the Association Committee
(a). It shall have full control and management of the affairs of the Association.
(b). It shall enforce and construe the constitution, by-laws, rules and regulations and may impose
penalties for violation thereof.

16. Alterations to Constitution, Rules & By-Laws
e) Alterations or deletions to rules and by-laws not contained in this constitution are by a majority
decision of the committee. These changes do not have to be filed with the Registrar and shall
become effective no sooner than 6 weeks after the committee decision.
f) When a new rule is passed, or an old rule is altered or amended, the membership shall be
notified by email or in writing to those registered to be mailed, of that new ruling within 1 week of
the date of that meeting. The new ruling shall become effective 6 weeks after the committee
meeting.

There is no actual 'consultation period', and the members do not have a right to vote on issues. It is the committee's job and that is also governed by the Incorporated Societies Act 1908.
So it's time to stop this very wrong incessant carry on!
[u][/u]

Guest
Newbie
Posts: 12
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Post Re: Offshore rules 2016
on: January 14, 2016, 18:37
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There we go folks. Directly from the committee.

You have no say or rights in the association you pay to belong to.

One of the odjectectives of the constitution is to promote the hobby. This sort of dictatorial behavior certainly does not promote the hobby at all.

Best those members who care about the direction the association is taken do something about it before membership drops to a point where the association is no longer sustainable (insolvent).

Regards

Fred

Guest
Jedi
Posts: 149
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Post Re: Offshore rules 2016
on: January 15, 2016, 07:35
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Fred you are being seditious! Are you saying that the rules should be ignored because that is what suits you?There is a process, and it is incredibly unfair for you to carry on in this vain. If the membership do not like the way things are, then they can put to the AGM for constitutional changes that get voted on. I guess if you bothered to educate yourself better ( read the constition, as I have suggested), you would understand this. The continued attacks on the committee (and association) from someone who refuses to be a member because of what seems to be some personal beef with the system, is just plain destructive.
Mod's it is time you stepped in and put an end to this thread that was started to convey information, not be a sniping range.

Bigbird
Moderator
Posts: 322
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Post Re: Offshore rules 2016
on: January 15, 2016, 09:21
Quote

For days I have refrained from joining this discussion as I did not want to do anything to inflame the situation. Now it has reached a stage where some rational response is required.

I speak as an NZMPBA member of some 39 continuous years with committee stints, terms of President, Secretary and Propshaft editor, attendee at many AGMs, and have been and continue to be an active and enthusiastic competitor etc.

1. I applaud the current committee’s move to change the old remit system, it was the correct course of action. Two of the previous contributors to this thread, to my accurate knowledge, have only been to one AGM each and only one of those was when the old style remit system applied. So they will have next to NO experience on how the old remit system had become a total rort. It had over the previous 15 to 20 years in the large part been hijacked into a vehicle for ‘self-interest’ by some members pushing through rules and changes for their own advantage rather than the common good of the NZMPBA.

2. One of the main thrust of remits over the previous years were remits to create ever more racing classes. On the basis “I have this boat or are going to build this boat or buy this new engine, therefore there ‘has to be’ a class for it, so I will put in a remit and get what I want”. Some remits passed often due to good oratory rather than sound reasoning pushing it through to a successful vote. I have first-hand knowledge of this as I wrote up some of the AGM meeting minutes back then. As a result over time we ended up with too many classes, some of which were successful for a while and then sometime later the erstwhile supporters of those classes stopped turning up to events and moved on to other things. So they were no longer supporting with their ongoing participation the changes they ran through, thus leaving the wreckage behind for others. Not to be totally negative there has been the odd sustained success such as the Thunderboat class(es).

3. Now we are left with the fallout, one of which is ‘too many’ classes. On one Nats entry form 2-3 years ago there were 46 events offered and the NZMPBA membership stood at about 86, of which maybe only about 30 had ever or would ever consider competing at a Nats. Do the math and see how unworkable that scenario was in terms of getting fields to line up in those events.

4. So back to the committee, top marks for dumping a cancerous and corrosive remit system.
It is now up to the committee to undo the damage caused by the “old ‘open to all’ remit system” and move the association forward to a membership of 100+ that is inclusive of all of NZ and develop a viable and sustainable Nationals regatta, which in itself is going to require some radical reshaping IMHO. This will not be achieved overnight.

5. With anything new teething problems are going to occur as things settle in and this all that has happened here, but does not warrant the toxic path this thread has taken.

6. As a word of caution there being no ‘Consultation period’ for changes adds an additional responsibility on the Committee to ‘get it right the first time’ and either live with that responsibility or acknowledge all may NOT be rosy in the garden and have another look at it. I understand the next Committee meeting is 18 January and no doubt this will be discussed so let’s wait until after that.

7. My suggestion to the committee as part of their responsibility is to educate us, the membership at large, as to why certain measures are to be implemented rather than present it as a ‘fait accompli’. This could be achieved if Committee Meeting minutes described in some detail how decisions are reached, particularly with this issue, rather than just report the result of a vote which tells us nothing of the detail considered. (take this as constructive criticism) This way potential damage, alluded to by the above posters, can be undone or avoided on this occasion.

8. At the end of the day, or year, the committee’s success will be judged by how many happy members running boats on the water there are, and how many are lining up to re-join. Give the committee a chance and stop posting NEGATIVE stuff.

9. Finally I fail to see how a ‘former member’ of NZMPBA and ‘now proud non-member’ thinks by encouraging the rest of us to not pay our subscriptions helps our cause. It may be helping his cause whatever it is?

Peter Collier

Bigfishbob
Jedi
Posts: 287
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Post Re: Offshore rules 2016
on: January 16, 2016, 18:13
Quote

Very nicely and accurately put Pete.

Please also remember that the Offshore Rules as they are currently written are the result of the consultation that Matt Bindon and Phil Fowler did with members who attended offshore events last year (2015) and spoke with the attendees.

It is also expected/assumed that the committee members were also consulting with members of their own clubs during the development of the rules, and that consultation has therefore been a dynamic process. Wellington, Tauranga, Hamilton and Masterton clubs were represented on the committee of 2015. Why are people feeling un-consulted? Are committee members not consulting with their own clubs?

Finally can people be more specific when providing feedback? My/our current understanding of the issues at hand are;
1. Some Tauranga club members feel that a penalty buoy system be used instead of re-circling buoys. Arguing that re-circling missed buoys presents a safety hazard, as boats leave the course to circle inside the course, and re-enter the course coming around the outside of the buoy
2. Wellington club members prefer the status quo allowing re-circling of Buoys if a buoy is missed OR forgo counting the lap where the buoy was missed. Arguing (i think) that not all courses have room for a penalty buoy.
3. A Tauranga club member has made a submission to outlaw "circuit racing boats"razors etc." for offshore use. Arguing that circuit boats are not proper offshore boats and therefore should not be allowed to compete.

My Personal opinion
Items 1 & 2- The committee (prior to me joining in September) appear to have decided to tried to find a middle ground between the safety concern and the preference for status quo. By simply deleting the option for re-circling the buoy and not counting the lap. Correct me if I am wrong.

Item 3- My personal belief is that one of the strengths of the Offshore series, the most well supported event(s) in the NZMPBA calendar, is the Run what you bring approach. The allowance for the boat to be a semi-scale likeness of a full size offshore race boat, which means that anybody can decorate their boat appropriately, place a couple of drivers in an open cockpit, or paint the windscreen of an enclosed cockpit and get a guaranteed days racing barring reliability issues. The format fits seasoned racers and newbies alike. Stress is low, fun is high and we've engaged 50 of our members from one end of the country for the last 5 or so years. Check out the British Power Boat racing Club facebook page to see the variety of full size boats being raced overseas, or go see a round of the NZ Offshore power boat series to see the diversity of craft being run. The series has been dominated but Cats for some years now, but do we see them trying to restrict the participation of cats to "improve competition"?

NOTE that for our series the same drivers have featured in the top 3 for the last 3 years, and that these circuit boats have not ever featured in the top 5 placings. So what's the problem we're trying to solve?

The rest of the rules are not materially different from what we've been doing for the last 5-6 years. It's just the first time most have seen them in writing and there are some bits which have been clarified to ensure that people understand that points are accumulated for the boat/engine combo. That's always been the intent, but had not been as clearly stated/understood as it should be.

One thing I am certain about is that the intent of the release of these rules is to formalise and document what we do, and to ensure we're capturing lessons learned about safety and running an event for maximum enjoyment and reasonable safety.

The committee, particularly Matt and Phil, has worked hard to consult and find solutions to meet the needs of all members. This is all volunteer stuff, nobody gets paid or makes any personal gain from this stuff. Please support the committee by providing constructive specific feedback about what the issues you have with the rules are and what a consensus solution could look like.

Guest
Jedi
Posts: 149
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Post Re: Offshore rules 2016
on: January 22, 2016, 14:54
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Hi all,
This is some communication on behalf of the committee for our members, to explain a little about this years new offshore rule set. I hope that this helps everyone to understand it better.
The reason we (the committee) have done a rule set for the offshore series was due to two main reasons.
The first was that our existing rule in the rule book was very short and brief and did not reflect all that was actually happening in practice.
The second reason was that what was being used as the rules was an informal rule set that had never been finished or put out to the membership so that they could read, know and understand it.
For the most part the new rule set follows through with the way offshore racing has been done for a number of years, Of course we have had a good look at the in and outs of it and tried to produce a document that is as fair to all as possible, so there has been a little tidying up in some areas.
At this point there are three areas that seem to be a little confusing to members so I will try to address those.
Replacement boats.
The rule on a replacement boat allows for a racer to change a boat once in a season. This may be to major damage, or having put together a new boat that they would like to compete with. This allows for a continuation of points allocation as if they had used the same boat all season. You cannot change back during the season in this respect, so if you are after points, then you will need to make sure that the change of boat will be beneficial to your series.
A back up boat is still allowable on any race day, but you will need to make sure to notify the race director as points are allocated to the boat and any points/laps accumulated will qualify to the back up not the original, as per what has been done previously. This is allowed so that those who are competing for the enjoyment and are not concerned about points gained can fully enjoy their day out running boats.

No recircling of bouys.
The no recircling has been brought in to stop the damage that seems to so often happen as recircling boats do not give way and crash into other boats causing unnecessary damage and even putting them off the water and out of further racing for the day or even other regattas. We looked to try and take away something that creates a risk of damage to boats, and I think everyone should be able to appreciate that. One of the things that has changed the game as such in recent years, is the bigger, faster petrol boats that are almost all using surface drives. They are just not as able to slow down and turn as well as the smaller submerged drive boats of the past and this creates some of the problem also.

Penalty bouy
The penalty bouy system offers a solution to several issues.
Firstly the safety of rescue boat operators on the water amongst racing boats. If for example the rescue boat is at or near a bouy picking up dead boats, the race director can instruct drivers to miss that bouy and proceed to the next bouy on the course and then run to the penalty bouy as the substitute in the same manner as a penalty so constituting a complete lap, thereby taking the rescue boat out of the race line and hazard temporarily until the bouy is clear.
Rescue boats do get hit, and we know that racers do not always slow down or keep clear enough. I had the misfortune of being hit by a boat while rescuing my own early last year and being tipped out of the rescue boat. Fortunately it was a perfect warm day, and as I had a lot of sailing in small boats when I was young, it did not freak me out to end up in the water. However, had the conditions been different, or had had I been hit harder, or cut by a propeller or such it could have been a much more serious situation. SAFETY is a priority and we must take it seriously especially with new legislation coming into force in April this year. We just cannot allow this to happen.
Secondly, if a driver does miss a bouy, they make the mistake up by going around the penalty bouy, this takes them out of the race line and creates a disadvantage to them and an advantage to others who may be able to gain back a lead while they complete their penalty. This means that there is also no deducting of a lap for the missed bouy.
Thirdly, it is largely a self policing system. In that for example if you are chasing another boat that misses a bouy, you can say ‘hey do your penalty’ which again gives you the chance to gain a lead. Drivers and pitmen on the stand are encouraged to communicate in this respect. This also minimizes the ‘honesty’ issue of laps being counted when they shouldn’t and should make the lap counters job easier.

I trust that this helps everyone to understand the new rules a bit better. I ask that we all work with this new framework and I am sure any wrinkles will iron out during the year. The committee will review it at the end of the year, with a view to fixing any parts that may need it. If you have any constructive criticisms or feedback for us, please send it in. It will be looked at and considered, but please do not be offended if we do not automatically adopt your ideas.

Peter Anderson
NZMPBA President.

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